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Join two of the leading educators in manual therapy, bodywork, and massage therapy, as they delve into the most intriguing issues, questions, research, and client conditions that hands-on practitioners face. Stimulate your thinking with imaginative conversations, tips, and interviews related to the somatic arts and sciences.
Episodes

4 days ago
4 days ago
🎙Grief is not just an emotion—it’s a full-body experience. In this episode, Til Luchau talks with neuroscientist and psychologist Mary-Frances O’Connor, author of The Grieving Body, about how grief changes the brain, affects inflammation, and alters our physiology. They explore how attachment loss rewires the brain, how inflammatory responses shape behavior and mood, and how the body experiences grief via physical sensations.
They also discuss the role of touch, bodywork, and therapeutic presence in supporting people through grief, and together they reflect on the profound connections between grief, the body, and the healing power of human connection.
🔍 Key Topics:
- 04:30 – Grief and the brain: What happens in the mind-body connection
- 10:45 – Grief is not toxic: A new understanding of pain and loss
- 16:00 – How inflammation shapes behavior and mood in grief
- 24:00 – Attachment loss and the nervous system: Polyvagal insights
- 32:45 – The physical sensations of grief: aches, tension, and holding patterns
- 38:00 – Touch as co-regulation: What bodywork can offer in grief
- 44:15 – Grief as a lifelong, embodied process, not something to get over
- 50:10 – Practical insights for bodyworkers supporting grieving clients
- 55:30 – How understanding the body’s role in grief can transform our approach
💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! info@thethinkingpractitioner.com
✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast.
📄 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!
- Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com
- Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com
Resources discussed in this episode:
- Two of Mary-Frances O’Connor's books:
Sponsor Offers:
- Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.
- ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.
- Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,.
- Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet
- Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/
About Whitney Lowe | About Til Luchau | Email Us: info@thethinkingpractitioner.com
(The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

Wednesday May 28, 2025
145: Can Discs Heal? (with Stuart McGill)
Wednesday May 28, 2025
Wednesday May 28, 2025
🎙 World-renowned spine expert Dr. Stuart McGill returns for a deep dive into the complexities of disc healing and adaptation, back pain mechanics, and what manual and movement therapists need to understand about spinal loading, adaptation, and practitioner longevity. In this rich and wide-ranging conversation with Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe, Dr. McGill offers both cutting-edge science and practical insights for helping clients—and ourselves—move with more strength, resilience, and less pain.
🔍 Key Topics:
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(04:43) Can Discs Heal or Adapt? – What the science says about disc recovery and tissue response.
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(09:47) Posture vs. Load-Driven Pain – Simple tests to differentiate pain sources.
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(14:12) Disc Architecture & Adaptation – Why discs don’t respond like tendons.
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(19:38) Mobility vs. Load Capacity – The trade-offs between flexibility and strength.
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(25:41) Disc Bulges, Schmorl’s Nodes & End Plate Damage – How structure influences symptoms.
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(32:10) McKenzie Techniques: When They Work & When They Don’t – What recent studies reveal.
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(41:19) Grooving New Movement Patterns – Lasting change requires more than mobility.
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(45:57) The Biological Spectrum – Why not all bodies adapt the same.
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(52:55) Long Fascial Chains & Functional Release – Lessons from the fascia world.
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(59:00) Chronic vs. Repeated Acute Pain – Empowering clients through precision assessment.
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(1:00:13) Bodyworker Longevity & Spinal Mechanics – How therapists can protect their own backs.
💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! info@thethinkingpractitioner.com
✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast.
📄 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!
- Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com
- Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com
Resources discussed in this episode:
- Stuart McGill's site: https://backfitpro.com
Sponsor Offers:
- Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.
- ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.
- Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,.
- Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet
- Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/
About Whitney Lowe | About Til Luchau | Email Us: info@thethinkingpractitioner.com
(The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

Wednesday May 14, 2025
144: Fascia, Emotion, Inflammation, & Attention (with Robert Schleip)
Wednesday May 14, 2025
Wednesday May 14, 2025
🎙In this thought-provoking episode, Til and Whitney welcome back fascia researcher Robert Schleip to explore the evolving science behind fascia’s role in emotional regulation, inflammation, and sensory experience. They dive into Schleip’s keynote for the upcoming 7th International Fascia Research Congress and discuss emerging research on fascia as a dynamic neuro-immune interface.
Robert shares his updates on fascinating insights into attention, depression, touch, circadian rhythms, and how fascia may bridge body and mind in ways we’re only beginning to understand.
🕑 Key Topics
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04:15 – Schleip’s keynote preview: fascia, emotion, and immune interaction
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06:09 – The new direction of the 2025 Fascia Research Congress
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07:55 – Polyvagal theory and fascia: Schleip on Porges and the vagus nerve
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12:15 – Fascia and depression: new findings on thickened epimysium
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20:47 – Foam rolling, mindful attention, and emotional filtering in depression
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26:12 – Reticular formation, attention, and touch outcomes
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32:07 – Therapist vs client attention: new data on treatment impact
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37:12 – The history and evolution of the Fascia Research Congress
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44:04 – Fascia, safety, and perceptual context
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48:00 – Sliding fascia and emotional stress: 48-hour delay and resilience
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51:40 – New paradigm: from force transmission to circadian rhythms and synthesis
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56:21 – Schleip’s takeaway: return to wonder and curiosity under the stars
💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us!
📌 Sponsored by: ABMP and Books of Discovery, with in-kind support from the Fascia Research Society
✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast.
📄 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!
- Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com
- Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com
Resources discussed in this episode:
- Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/
Sponsor Offers:
- Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.
- ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.
- Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,.
- Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet
- Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/
About Whitney Lowe | About Til Luchau | Email Us: info@thethinkingpractitioner.com
(The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

Wednesday Apr 30, 2025
143: Palliative Massage is for Everyone (with Cal Cates)
Wednesday Apr 30, 2025
Wednesday Apr 30, 2025
🎙Cal Cates returns to The Thinking Practitioner to explore the essential role massage therapy can play in palliative and end-of-life care. In conversation with Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe, Cal shares practical insights, personal stories, and the philosophy behind Healwell’s innovative mPATH training program. Together they unpack ways that all massage therapists and bodyworkers can better support patients, caregivers, and care teams—not by fixing, but by listening, noticing, and showing up with presence.
🌟 Key Topics:
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[04:37] What is palliative care—and where massage therapy fits
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[07:15] The cultural fear of dying and how it limits care
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[11:38] Common assumptions therapists make about palliative care
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[13:21] Massage therapy is palliative care—philosophically and practically
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[16:36] Caregiver stress: why the family is the “unit of care”
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[20:23] Communication as the primary intervention in palliative settings
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[24:06] How therapeutic touch invites emotional openness
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[25:44] Self-regulation and presence as clinical skills
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[31:38] Cal’s personal story: how they began this work
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[36:39] Are we making progress as a culture in facing death?
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[38:37] Skills and mindsets bodyworkers can cultivate
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[46:16] The mPATH program: advanced training for palliative care massage
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[52:21] What can go wrong without proper preparation
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[57:13] Technique is important—but presence makes it land
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[58:17] Resources and where to learn more
💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us!
📌 Sponsored by: ABMP and Books of Discovery, with in-kind support from the Fascia Research Society
✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast.
📄 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!
- Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com
- Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com
Resources discussed in this episode:
- Healwell's mPATH program: https://Healwell.org/mPATH
- Cal's recommendations
- Palliative Touch by Cindy Spence
- Oncology Massage: An Integrative Approach to Cancer Care by Rebecca Sturgeon and Janet Penny
- Massage Therapy and Medical Conditions: a Decision Tree Approach by Tracy Walton
- Vital Talk
- The Center to Advance Palliative Care
- Mandy Bartolovich on the Folding Towels podcast talking about pediatric palliative massage work and her research.
- Friday Chalk Talk - Palliative Care
Sponsor Offers:
- Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.
- ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.
- Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,.
- Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet
- Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "thinking" at https://www.frscongress.org/
About Whitney Lowe | About Til Luchau | Email Us: info@thethinkingpractitioner.com
(The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

Wednesday Apr 16, 2025
142: Fascia and the Vagus Nerve (with Fabiana Silva)
Wednesday Apr 16, 2025
Wednesday Apr 16, 2025
🎙Til Luchau speaks with physiotherapist and fascia researcher Fabiana Silva about the emerging connections between fascia, the vagus nerve, and systemic inflammation. They explore both the science and the practical applications of manual therapy, transcutaneous vagus nerve stimulation, and the challenges of clinical research in the hands-on healing arts. Fabiana is also the President of the Fascia Research Society, and shares highlights from the upcoming 2025 Fascia Research Congress in New Orleans.
🎧 Tune in to learn how fascia influences vagal tone, inflammation, mood, and more — and how practitioners can work more effectively with these systems.
🌟 Key Topics:
---
💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us!
📌 Sponsored by: ABMP and Books of Discovery, with in-kind support from the Fascia Research Society
✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast.
📄 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!
- Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com
- Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com
Resources discussed in this episode:
- The 7th International Fascia Research Congress, August 10–14, 2025: https://www.frscongress.org/
- Fascia Research Society: https://fasciaresearchsociety.org/
Sponsor Offers:
- Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.
- ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.
- Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,.
- Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet
- Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "thinking" at https://www.frscongress.org/
About Whitney Lowe | About Til Luchau | Email Us: info@thethinkingpractitioner.com
(The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)