The Thinking Practitioner

Dr. Joi Edwards is a physical therapist with nearly 20 years of experience specializing in orthopedic injuries and a licensed massage therapist who bridges the gap between clinical assessment and intuitive soft-tissue work.

She joins Whitney on The Thinking Practitioner to dive deep into the world of cupping therapy—exploring the physiological mechanisms, the various types of tools, and why this ancient modality is about much more than just leaving red marks on the skin.

Joi’s fascination with cupping began in the clinic when she discovered the modality "pre-Michael Phelps" and noticed an immediate 15-degree increase in her own shoulder's range of motion after experimenting with the cups. Her journey was further shaped by international patients who shared how their families had used cupping for generations to treat everything from systemic colds to localized chronic pain.

This episode is an exploration of how decompression—rather than the compression typically associated with massage—can restore tissue mechanics and stimulate a nervous system response that even the most skilled manual techniques sometimes can't replicate.

✨ Topics discussed include: Whitney and Joi walk through the different categories of cupping, the science of tissue decompression, and how to safely integrate cups into a clinical practice.

• Joi's transition from physical therapy to massage therapy—and why she felt compelled to integrate the two.
• The history of cupping: from hollowed-out animal horns used for "snake bites" to modern medical-grade silicone.
• Wet cupping (Hijama) vs. Dry cupping: understanding the scope of practice and the cultural significance of bloodletting.
• The physics of the "Pinch Grip" and "Donut Drop": how different application methods change the treatment.
• Decompression vs. Compression: how cups create space in the soft tissue to allow for better "glide and slide".
• What's in a circle? Capillary dilation and interstitial seepage vs. the misconception of traumatic bruising.
• The importance of assessment: why you shouldn't just "put a cup on it" without evaluating the person in front of you.
• Clinical techniques: "Popcorning," gliding, and the "Monkey Bar" technique for spinal decompression.
• Hygiene and maintenance: the specific protocols for sanitizing medical-grade silicone.

✨ Resources:

• Owlchemy Education: https://owlchemyeducation.com 
• Connect with Dr. Joi Edwards on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok: @owlchemymassage

🌱 Sponsor Offers:

• Jane – Practice management for health and wellness practitioners. Try it free for one month with code THINKING1MO at https://a-t.tv/jane
• ABMP – Save $24 on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking
• Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com/
• Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions/ with code thinking
• Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet

✨ Watch the video / connect with us:

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts
• Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau
• Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe

📧 Email us: info@thethinkingpractitioner.com

The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙 Does Massage Research Actually Work? (with Bodhi Haraldsson)

Bodhi Haraldsson is a registered massage therapist, researcher, and self-described “pracademic” who has spent over 25 years bridging the gap between clinical practice and scientific inquiry. He joins Whitney on The Thinking Practitioner to talk about one of the most important — and most misunderstood — questions in our profession: what does the research actually tell us about massage therapy?

Bodhi’s journey into research began at McMaster University — the birthplace of evidence-based practice — where he joined the Cochrane Cervical Overview Group and helped author a landmark systematic review on massage for mechanical neck disorders. That review, first published in 2006 and later in Spine, analyzed thousands of studies down to just 14 qualifying trials — and found that most of the evidence was limited or unclear. Nearly 20 years later, a 2024 update reached essentially the same conclusions.

But this isn’t a discouraging story. It’s a call to understand what research can and can’t tell us — and why that matters for every practitioner. Bodhi and Whitney explore why absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, why no single study can capture the complexity of clinical practice, and how evidence-based practice isn’t about recipes or checklists — it’s about better understanding what we do and why.

✨ Topics discussed include: Whitney and Bodhi walk through the Cochrane review process, the state of massage research, and what individual practitioners can take away from the evidence conversation.

• What a “pracademic” is — and why massage needs more of them
• How the Cochrane Cervical Overview Group conducted its systematic review of massage for neck pain
• Starting with thousands of studies and ending with 14 qualifying trials — and why
• Levels of evidence: from strong to limited to unclear
• Why the 2024 update reached essentially the same conclusions as the 2006 original
• The research gap: why massage lags behind physiotherapy and chiropractic in building a cohesive evidence base
• The “lineage model” of massage education vs. academic training
• Mechanical effects, neurological effects, contextual effects — and why we need all the pieces of the puzzle
• Publication bias: why negative findings rarely get published and how trial registries help
• Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence — what that really means for practice
• How research changed Bodhi’s own clinical work: always asking “how and why?”

✨ Resources:
• Cochrane Review — Massage for Mechanical Neck Disorders (2006): https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD004871/full
• Ezzo, Haraldsson et al. — “Massage for Mechanical Neck Disorders: A Systematic Review,” Spine, 2007: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17268268/
• Cochrane Review update — Massage for Neck Pain (2024): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38415786/
• Connect with Bodhi Haraldsson on LinkedIn and Facebook

🌱 Sponsor Offers:
• Jane – Practice management for health and wellness practitioners. Try it free for one month with code THINKING1MO at https://a-t.tv/jane
• ABMP – Save $24 on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking
• Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com/
• Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions/ with code thinking
• Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet

✨ Watch the video / connect with us:
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts
• Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau
• Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe

📧 Email us: info@thethinkingpractitioner.com

The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙 The Interstate Massage Compact (with Deborah Persinger)

Deborah Persinger is the Executive Director of the Federation of State Massage Therapy Boards (FSMTB), and she joins Whitney on The Thinking Practitioner to break down one of the most significant regulatory developments in our profession’s history: the Interstate Massage Compact.

If you’ve ever moved to a new state and had to navigate a whole new set of licensing requirements — or if you live near a state border and can’t legally work on the other side — this episode is for you. The compact would create a multi-state license allowing eligible massage therapists to practice across state lines without meeting separate requirements in each state. It’s already been adopted by five states, with two more needed to stand up the commission and make the license a reality.

But there’s more at stake than portability. Deborah explains how the compact was carefully designed to address human trafficking in the massage profession — a daily reality for regulatory boards — and why the details of how the compact is written matter enormously for keeping bad actors out while making life easier for legitimate practitioners.

✨ Topics discussed include: Whitney and Deborah walk through the compact’s origins, the 625-hour education standard, the role of the Department of Defense, and the current obstacles to getting it across the finish line.

• What the Interstate Massage Compact is — and how multi-state licensing works
• The 625-hour education standard: where it came from and why it was chosen
• Home state vs. remote state — how the compact defines where you practice
• Why the Department of Defense supports the compact (military family portability)
• The five states that have adopted so far: Nevada, Ohio, Arkansas, Virginia, and Montana
• Human trafficking provisions unique to the massage compact
• The national massage therapy licensing database and its role in tracking bad actors
• Over 20,000 illicit massage businesses in the U.S. — and why that matters for compact design
• Rule vs. statute: the key disagreement holding things up
• Why 97–98% of surveyed practitioners support the original compact
• What individual practitioners can do to stay informed and have their voice heard

✨ Resources:
• Interstate Massage Compact: https://www.massagecompact.org
• Federation of State Massage Therapy Boards (FSMTB): https://www.fsmtb.org
• Massage Compact Practitioner Survey: https://www.massagecompact.org

🌱 Sponsor Offers:
• Jane – Practice management for health and wellness practitioners. Try it free for one month with code THINKING1MO at https://a-t.tv/jane
• ABMP – Save $24 on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking
• Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com/
• Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions/ with code thinking
• Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet

✨ Watch the video / connect with us:
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts
• Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau
• Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe

📧 Email us: info@thethinkingpractitioner.com

The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙 Dizziness Roundtable (with Ruth Werner)

Ruth Werner returns to The Thinking Practitioner for a roundtable discussion with Til and Whitney on one of the most overlooked topics in manual therapy: balance challenges. Ruth is the author of A Massage Therapist’s Guide to Pathology (now in its 7th edition), a long-time educator, and host of the podcast I Have a Client Who. In this wide-ranging conversation with Til and Whitney, Ruth brings her characteristic clarity to a complex subject — helping us understand what’s really happening when clients feel dizzy, wobbly, or unsteady.

Balance difficulties show up constantly in clinical practice, yet most of us never learned how to think about them. Clients get dizzy turning over on the table. They feel lightheaded sitting up from prone. They mention casually that they’re “always a little unsteady” after sessions — and we realize we’ve never asked the right questions. This episode gives MTs a framework for understanding, responding to, and even helping with balance challenges — while knowing when to refer out.

✨ Topics discussed include: Ruth, Til, and Whitney unpack the sensory triad behind balance (vision, proprioception, and the vestibular system), explore common conditions like BPPV and POTS, and discuss what the research actually shows about massage and balance — including some encouraging findings about foot work and gait in older adults.

• What we really mean by “balance” — and why Ruth finds the word frustratingly vague
• The difference between vertigo (spinning) and dizziness (lightheadedness)
• Why position changes on the table can trigger symptoms — and what to do about it
• BPPV, the Epley maneuver, and “rocks in our head” (otoliths)
• POTS, blood pressure medications, and the challenge of sitting up
• Hypermobility, Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, and their links to balance issues
• Red flags: progressive changes, asymmetry, and when to refer
• Research on massage, foot work, and balance in older adults
• Why there’s no “dizziness muscle” — and what we can do instead
• Fall risk, deconditioning, and the cascade of consequences
• Vestibular physical therapy and other referral options

✨ Resources:
• Ruth Werner’s website: https://ruthwerner.com/
• Ruth’s podcast I Have a Client Who: https://www.abmp.com/podcasts?defined_term=353
• A Massage Therapist’s Guide to Pathology, 7th Edition: https://booksofdiscovery.com/
• Sefton et al. (2012) – Six weeks of massage therapy produces changes in balance: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3457720/
• Tarkhasi et al. (2025) – Corrective exercises with massage improve balance and gait: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39550789/

🌱 Sponsor Offers:
• Jane – Practice management for health and wellness practitioners. Try one month free with code THINKING1MO at https://a-t.tv/jane
• ABMP – Save $24 on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking
• Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com/
• Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription with code thinking at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions/
• Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet

✨ Watch the video / connect with us:
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts
• Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau
• Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe

📧 Email us: info@thethinkingpractitioner.com

The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙 A Master in Plain Sight (with Art Riggs)

Art Riggs is a Certified Advanced Rolfer™, massage therapist, and creator of some of the most influential instructional video courses in our field. His recordings were among the first truly comprehensive video trainings available to bodyworkers. Decades later, practitioners still return to them again and again, finding new insights each time. They age well because they’re packed with technique, yet grounded in principles that never go out of style.

Here’s the paradox of Art’s work: he shares a staggering wealth of techniques, yet what he emphasizes most isn’t technique at all. It’s listening, allowing, and refining your touch. “Deep tissue,” he explains, isn’t about pressing harder. It’s a conversation with the body, where pressure is just one word in the vocabulary.

At 80, and still seeing clients most days, Art brings warmth and infectious enthusiasm to everything he discusses. He’s humble about his contributions, generous with credit to his teachers, and genuinely delighted by the craft he’s practiced for decades. This conversation is a joy from start to finish.

✨Topics discussed include:
Whether you’re early in your career or decades in, this episode is a masterclass in how to think with your hands.
• Why Art chose “deep tissue massage” over a proprietary name — and why that made his work more accessible
• The difference between deep tissue and “pressing harder”
• Touch as communication: pressure, speed, angle, and reading the body’s response
• “Refine your touch” — the three words that changed everything
• Allowing vs. forcing: offering something for people to take
• Why his first video set covers techniques while his second shows integration into a fluid, full session
• The limits of online learning — and why hands-on classes and receiving work still matter
• The overlap (and differences) between massage therapy and Rolfing® — and what each can learn from the other
• Movement, getting clients off the table, and working in real-world positions (not just neutral on the table)
• The skill of knowing where to work — and when you’re done
• Acknowledging Helen James, who Rolfed until 95: choosing a profession where you can keep learning until you drop

✨ Resources:
• Art Riggs’ video courses (now also eligible for NCBTMB-approved CE): https://advanced-trainings.com/artriggs
• Art Riggs’ book: Deep Tissue Massage, Revised Edition: A Visual Guide to Techniques – https://www.northatlanticbooks.com/shop/deep-tissue-massage-revised-edition/

🌱 Sponsor Offers:
• Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com/
• ABMP – Save $24 on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking
• Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription (including lessons from Art Riggs' courses) at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions/ with code thinking
• Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet

✨ Watch the video / connect with us:
• Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau
• Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe

📧 Email us: info@thethinkingpractitioner.com

The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

Rolfing®, Rolfer™, Rolf Movement®, Rolfing Ten-Series™, and the Little Boy Logo are service marks of The Rolf Institute of Structural Integration®, Boulder, CO.